Atheists Position

The Atheist’s position

Comment: – According to recent surveys, a little over 10% of the U.S.
population are atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers. Of the prison population,
only 1% are atheists, agnostics and freethinkers. What do you make of this?

Verse Psalms 14:1 is often used to denounce atheists.  I know a number of people
that sincerely believe there is no God, that are far from being fools; that are not corrupt
and do much more good than the great majority of Christians and other religionists.
So, the verse:   Ps 14:1 ś … The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good. is plainly untrue and is
simply promoting a grievous falsehood. 
In other words, Psalms 14:1 is a lie.

The following are e-mails regarding the Atheist’s position?

J. writes:

>Not unlike the self defeating position of the atheist. In order to make the
>assertion of a universal negative – there is no God –you must have evaluated
>all possibilities, places, dimensions, and times. Having evaluated all you would
>know all and being omniscient you would be God and in saying there is no
>God would be wrong.

My reply:

The person that makes an extraordinary claim must show extraordinary proof
for that claim. An atheist does not believe in a God because there is no
extraordinary proof of God’ existence.  Likewise many people do not believe in the actual existence of 
Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, or the Easter Bunny.  It is up to the person that believes in Santa Claus to prove 
he exists, not the person that does not believe he exists.

The onus is on the believer, not the unbeliever.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

Four examples:

Example 1: If you are a Muslim and claim the Koran is the only inspired Word of God;
it is up to you to prove it. Since I don’t make this claim, it is not up to me to disprove it.

Example 2: If I claim Santa Claus (as the myth portrays him) exists; it is up to me to
prove it. Since you don’t make the claim that he exists, it is not up to you to disprove it.

Example 3: If you make the claim that the Bible is the only inspired Word of God;
it is up to you to prove it. Since I don’t make this claim, it is not up to me to disprove it
(although I have made a good case for showing the Bible could not be a Universal God’s inspired Word).

Example 4: If ancient peoples claimed the existence of Zeus, Marduk, or Thoth it was up to them to prove it. 

Example 5: If I claim that there is a God; it is up to me to prove it.
Since the atheist didn’t make this claim, it is not up to him to disprove it.

In Science nothing is excluded from investigation.
When a claim is made about some phenomenon in Science, one of the first things
scientists do is to try to find something wrong with it. The onus is on the claimant to
justify his claim and to deal with all criticisms of it with reproducible evidence.
The person that makes a claim is on trial not the people finding fault.
So the believer in something must show overwhelming evidence, not the unbeliever.
This puts the onus on me, not on an atheist to prove my claims.
Just like it is for you there is no proof for some of my beliefs. In this respect,
my atheist friends have an advantage over someone that believes in a god..

Atheism is the default position which remains when all theistic claims are dismissed.

J. writes:

>For instance, a current philosophical teaching (in today’s colleges) which says
>that during the 15th century when the common understanding of the earth’s shape
>was that it was flat. If you agree that the “truth” of the world being flat was accurate
>(the world was literally flat) because they all agreed upon their examination of reality
>– you are a relativist. But, if you say that the world was always spherical, even when
>everyone thought it was flat, you are an absolutist. Truth is true, whether we like it
>or not. We can reject it (like today’s “flat–earthers”) but we can’t refute it.
>If we are wise, we will swallow our pride, be persuaded, and believe it. Agreed?
>I hope so. I find that the supreme gullibility of relativists and the absolute
>invincibility of their ignorance and sloppy thinking presents anĐ 8 was round.”

My reply:

(a) The Bible supports the flat earth “truth”, not the almost spherical earth “truth”
— (the earth is not perfectly spherical). Therefore, according to your description,
the Bible is relativistic. I agree! Actually, the Greeks that lived many years before
Jesus, believed the Earth was spherical and actually accurately measured the
circumference of the earth.

See the page Flat Earth e-mail response.

(b) In ethics (morals) the Bible is also relativistic. The Bible is full of examples
of the use of situational ethics in evil ways by both the God of the Bible and by
people in the Bible. Some examples are scattered on different pages on my website.

J. writes:

> “There is no evidence to suggest that a God of the Universe does not consider
a person that believes in God to be any better than an atheist or agnostic.
People discriminate against other people.
 How do you defend this statement? It’s one thing to make an assertion,
it’s another to successfully defend it.

My reply:

The evidence for this statement is based on what I see.
I see that my atheist friends are actually happier and friendlier people then my Christian
friends. The atheists are more open and considerate of people as they are.
I also find Christians are not better than Non-believers at the job, in marriage,
in business, or in charity to others. Statistics show that church people are no more
law abiding (apparently less law abiding) than non-church people.  Believing in a God or not believing in a God
doesn’t matter in ethical behaviour..

Jay writes:

>Are you saying that because you can’t imagine a God who makes distinctions
>between those who love and worship Him as He defined that love and worship,
>does that mean such a God cannot exist?

My Reply:

If there is such a God I would like to see the evidence — I don’t see it in the
world out there. If there is good evidence I will definitely consider it.
Some questions to you: On what do you base “He defined that love and worship”?
How do you know God of the universe wants our worship? If God is all powerful,
why is there a need in God for a lower being to worship God?

Links:

Atheist and Foxholes link:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/philip_paulson/foxhole.html

Infidel and Christian deathbeds:
Belief system and dying
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/george_foote/infidel_deathbeds.html